I'm delighted to welcome Iman Bibars today from Egypt and from the Ashoka Foundation to speak about the issues she's working on and that she's most passionate about at the moment. And then we'll talk a little further about the past and the future. But first, a brief introduction. About myself? Yes. My name is Iman Bibars. I'm Egyptian. I think I am a social entrepreneur and I have started working on women's issues for at least 32 years in the Middle East and Africa. I started Ashoka Foundation, the branch in the Middle East around 11 years ago; actually, mid-March it will be 11 years ago. You also founded a nonprofit organization? Yeah. Twenty-eight years ago, I founded the first micro-finance organization in the Middle East and not only in Egypt with it; I co-founded with several of my friends and it was the first NGO that works with female heads of households, works on microcredit and works on legal assistance and the legal existence of women in Egypt, yeah. Looking back over the last 10 years, did that represent a kind of response to the issues that you thought were most important at that time? I would ask you, looking back over the last 10 years, what do you think have been the major issues and maybe even the achievements in the women's movement? I think it is interesting because there are contradictory stuff. So for example, if we look in Middle East, you will find that a lot of laws came during the last 10 years supporting women. You know, there were many things about recognition of women's rights; for example, to have nationality, to give their nationality to their kids. There were issues about women's place in politics, that we need more women ministers or judges or in the parliament. So the laws were there. There was a much better framework, legal framework for women on one hand. There is a lot of education and educated women. There is much more voice for women, on the women's side. But the last three years in the Middle East, what we noted that this was not translated into what men believed or what the communities believed. After the revolution in Egypt, for example, one of the sad and strange things was that immediately after the revolution, there were so many calls for women to go back home. Although women were part of the revolution and were as hurt and, as you know, strong as men; but suddenly, there were voices for women to go home, to change the laws that were supporting women - which were based on religion, by the way. So this - I don't know, this dilemma or contradiction made us all in the women movement think what really is going on wrong? We have the laws, we have more voices, we have stronger women, but something did not translate into the communities. And I think this is what we need to focus on. And comment more about that. Do we have theories about what is going on? Because as you speak about this sort of back to the home movement that people pushing women back into a domestic life reminds me of what happened in South Africa, where women were actively involved in the anti-apartheid movement and in the revolutionary changes there. And after that, they were really invited back into the home rather than into public life. Would you comment on that? I think - I mean again, this is my own opinion, but I think we should really start focusing on empowering women, but also empowering men to understand women. And you know what I always say, the patriarchal paradigm is more unfair to men than to women - and men to recognize that. The patriarchal paradigm is making men too responsible and - as if they are the only ones who are in control. And it's really diminishing the rights of choice. So - and really, this is one of the things that I've been thinking of; why are you not allowed to stay home as a man if you want to? Why do you think this will diminish your manhood? So the patriarchal paradigm is as harmful to you as to us. You are diminishing our ability to be as powerful and as a decision-maker outside, but it's also diminishing your right to think of yourself as a father or to think of yourself as a homemaker. I've often thought that over time, what a huge burden this stereotype has been on men - of that tremendous pressure to have to bring in all the money, to be responsible for the survival of the family. It's - on the one hand, a powerful position, one might say; but I've often thought that it was a huge psychological - and for that matter physical, mental burden on men. I totally agree with you. I mean, this is a guy who cannot retire if he wants to retire. This is a guy who has all this responsibility on his shoulders when really, family and marriage is about partnership. So I think our next movement should be the patriarchal paradigm, the stereotype is as bad to you us to us. And we really have to change that, just as we have to change the way education is. I mean, the world now showed that all these traditional ways of doing things has not worked. Nobody is happy. The men are not happy, the women are not happy. The kids now are not as they should be change-makers, they should be entrepreneurial. This way of doing education as if we're still in the factory should really change. And I think men and women together should understand that. You've anticipated my next question, which is as you look forward to the next 10 years, what do you think are the challenges? And I guess I would put it this way - having - because you partially answered that question, there are these broad challenges. But getting into a more specific level of operation, what in practical terms do you think we can do to carry out this kind of change in the paradigm? I think it involves several things. One of it is we need more women leaders. I mean, at the end of the day, we need to empower more women to be leaders. But I would say lean in, break out and take over. So you know, I would not just say lean in. I think lean in is important, but I also think that we have to break out and I believe that opposition is something and resistance is something else. And if we want to change the system to be better for everyone, it is not enough to subvert and oppose, which is lean in; you need to break out and change. And what I'm saying here is if we want - for example, in the social entrepreneurship world where Ashoka is electing all these wonderful social - where Ashoka is electing all the social entrepreneurs, these innovative people who are trying to change the world. We are trying now to create this endowment fund where we elect more women, right, that are social entrepreneurs across the globe, but also help these women be partners in the decision-making process. Help these women scale their ideas to change the world and bringing the men to do that with us. The women endowment fund, for example, is to bring this fund which will give us a lot of freedom to find more women social entrepreneurs, to get onboard more male social entrepreneurs who are willing to support these women to scale up. And as I said, the challenges are that we have to recognize that we all live in this world and it cannot be governed by one gender nor the other. We all live in this world. Whether in the business or the social sector, we both have to understand that the challenges in the future is how we build the world together, no longer one gender more or the other. And the only way to believe in that is to really work together to change the world. To not only lean in, break out and change the world. In the work of Ashoka, for example, as you are beginning to focus on women leaders and now perhaps supporting particular women to move up into leadership positions, whether in government or corporate world or wherever, would Ashoka also buy in to that goal in the way it was supporting men? In other words, might they begin to be - to look for men who clearly demonstrate their commitment to a change in the paradigm so that you - you know, you work on your goal on both sides? I totally agree. I think what we are doing as Ashoka globally is to look for any social entrepreneur, because we are looking for those people who are trying to find local solutions to local problems in an innovative, systemic change way, right? The women fund will do exactly that. The women fund will give us liberty. Those people who believe that there is a need to change the paradigm is to give us liberty to find more female leaders in the social entrepreneurial sphere, to support some of them to scale up and have more impact, social impact, in their community but beyond; but also to look for those men, you know, who are willing - because without the men, we will not be able to change. And without the women, the world will not be able to be a better world. And I think this is part of - I would say the ideology, the vocation, the passion of the women endowment fund. Let us together have a better world and to put it in everybody's head, in the schools, in the change-making schools, in the social entrepreneurs we're going to elect, in the training or the capacity-building we're going to do, guys and girls. Without both of us working together, we will not have a better world. What advice would you give to women around the world who - many who may be watching this video - what advice would you give to them if they wanted to join - not join specifically your program, but share the goals that you've - that you've outlined? I would tell them the first thing, self-definition, our own definition of ourselves is the biggest barrier we have. We have to believe in ourselves. I mean, we have to believe that we are human beings, all of us - and that do not hesitate to ask. Do not hesitate to ask for help, but also do not hesitate to ask for your right. You know, women have these problems, either they don't ask for the right or they don't ask for help. And it does not diminish us to ask for help. So there's number one. Number two, think outside the box, you know, you have to think of how to solve problems in a way that is outside the box. And do not be afraid to be against the current because the future is for us to think out of the box so that we can solve the problems that nobody has been able to solve. Have confidence in yourself. Define yourself as an equal, define yourself as somebody who is a change-maker and empower everyone around you. Empower other women, empower young people and empower men too, because only if we are all empowered as change-makers can we really change the world. Thank you so much. Thank you.
