[MUSIC] So what, then, is the role of SynBio in all of this? So, SynBios played some really interesting roles in terms of, first of all, in being able to keep the promise of biofuels alive. Because when all of these things were coming to a forefront when they were faced with, wait a second, maybe we can't take food crops and turn them into fuel, maybe that wont solve all of our problems. Wait a second, maybe we can't just plant however many crops we want, wherever we want to. So, the advanced biofuels, and specifically synthetic biology, because again, at this time, about 2008, 2009, 2010 synthetic biology was they were still very much in a promissory phase. >> Mm-hm. >> Or today, we've got sort of a whole landscape of startups and companies. And biofuels was one of the main rallying points for synthetic biology as a new sustaining as fuel. >> Yep. >> It was one of the primary things that got talked about. And at a global level, at a national level, at a regional level, when people started to say, hold on, maybe we need to not be investing in biofuels, synthetic biology was there to say you could bring that in and say, no, no, the problem isn't biofuels, the problem is first generation biofuels. And if we can change the feed stock, if we can change the processes, we can do this better. And so it's been, I think it's been incredibly important in keeping open that space in those subsidies policies. And that space has remained open, it's sort of been open and hanging out for a while now. And during that time, you had some of those, there were a few major companies that were formed around biofuels. >> Right. >> And what we've seen in the past few years, is that they've shifted from biofuels, which are a high volume, low value product, to small volume, high value products, using the same pathways, right? And so, they're making fragrances, and they're making flavors, they're making chemicals. >> Yep, but at the same time, the science is still being advanced. >> Yes. >> So, is the idea then, that they will circle back to biofuels once the science has gotten a bit further? >> I don't know what the individual commercial ideas are. I don't, [INAUDIBLE]. >> [LAUGH] >> I don't know what they would say right now their long-term plans are. But certainly, that is still what the sort of global landscape- >> Okay- >> Is this moment, is still primed for that. >> Got it. >> Now, we are a week away as this is being taped from the US Presidential Inauguration- >> Yup. >> And there's some definite concern within the biofuels community based on the biofuels digest that I subscribe to. But also, from what I'm hearing, that the renewable, your space that has been provided and that's been supported, may be about to shift dramatically. >> Mm-hm. >> And so, that might be, that might have an impact, that might have a very dramatic impact. On what happens next in the US in terms of, yeah, what there's space for. >> But it's also possible that other countries and regions will take that up. >> Absolutely- >> [CROSSTALK] >> And be the driver. >> So, this 2016 nature biotech paper looking at patents, they were saying, China. >> Mm-hm. >> China is the place that has been turning out advanced biofuel patents. >> Yep. >> And with the Paris Agreement, China made a very strong commitment for greenhouse gas emissions. They could be a major new, yeah, driver and where renewable fuel, science, and commercialization goes next. >> So, the last thing I want to talk to you about, and then I will let you go, is the role of the public in all of this. And specifically, the role of the public in informing, or in conversations about, or in an actual decision-making around governance of biofuels and synthetic biology in biofuels. >> So, my research has been specifically at the international level, and with file fuels specifically around the in convention on biological diversities. So, i know that there are, that there have been space for public Input, at say, the European Union level, and in the US, along the way, these policies have been developed at various points. I've even inputted into the US. >> [LAUGH] >> Can't say that I, you can point to bio, [LAUGH]. >> The impact of that, yeah, impact to that. >> But at the conventional biological diversity at the CBD, I think biofuels was a fascinating, wish you to see play out. Because there are so many different kinds of perspectives on how to prioritize both the potential drawbacks. And the potential benefits, and who should be able to how those get allocated. And so, when I think of sort of the public and biofuel, I think of that being at a global level where the voices of African smallholder farmers were voiced by the Africa block, [INAUDIBLE] block countries as well as by [INAUDIBLE]. Which is the global. The corporative of present farmers, as well as different kinds of environmental groups like friends of the earth. >> Mm-hm. >> And so, at the UN levels, when it comes to negotiations, it really is between countries. >> Yes. >> In the context of an event, where there's lots of side events, and non-countries can speak to and give their versions of things at various points in the formal processes. Non-governmental institutions can sort of step in and say, okay, well, this is our expertise, and this is what we think. And so, you see all of that, but even more than that, I think it's in part, about sort of seeing the European Union show up at the table and be like, we are the good guys. We want sustainable biofuels because of global, greenhouse gas problems. We want to do the best way possible. And then coming up against all kinds of tropical and sub-tropical countries saying like, well, that's one way to think about it. And that's one important way to think about it is global greenhouse gas emissions. But if you want to come and you consider all of this, you consider us to have all this marginal land that's going to be great for advanced bio fuels. Well, just because you think it's marginal- >> Mm-hm. >> Actually, that means that it's maybe that means that it's not commercialized. >> Right. >> That doesn't mean it's not being used by thousands of peasants. >> Right. >> That doesn't mean it's not being used by millions of people who don't have secure land tenure. And so, if you just say, Africa, 40% of Africa is marginal land that is not being utilized properly, and that we can grow biofuels on. That's going to have potentially a bunch of impacts that we think are important to be realized. >> Mm-hmm. >> So, I mean, another important thing to say that I haven't mentioned yet about the Convention on Biological Diversity, is that it is one of the largest environmental treaties, but the US is not a party to it. >> Mm-hm. >> The US has not ratified it, and so this makes for basically, the US and the whole EC [INAUDIBLE] don't belong to this treaty. That has made an impact in all sorts of different issues. But I think that, that impacted biofuels, as well, yeah. >> Okay. >> Done with that. >> Is there anything else that we haven't already talked about that you think it would be important for learners in this course to know about governance of biofuels and synthetic biology based biofuels in particular? >> Yeah, okay, I would say this. One of the strong messages that I've seen at UN forums, especially the convention on biological diversity, but others as well. Within agriculture organization, and the high level panel on agriculture, a high level panel on food security. But one of the strong messages that I've seen when it come to biofuels has been, having gone through this experience with first generation biofuels, where there were a lot of promises. And then a lot of unexpected, make adverse impacts, is a reluctance to take up further promises, without stepping back end trying to really seriously sort of get a sense of what, again, unanticipated impact might arise. >> Mm-hm. >> And so, there is not an automatic assumption that advanced biofuels will be biodiversity friendly. >> Mm-hm. >> Right, because yes, alcohol biofuels could sort of lift some land use pressure. But it might ultimately shift that pressure to a different biome. >> Right. >> It might not, it's not necessarily reducing the overall impact. And similarly, this sense that biomass doesn't just come from nowhere. There's not just sort of this world of unused biomass. They're starting to do studies on cornstalks, what actually happens if we seriously rely on cornstalks? Or cellulosic ethanol, look what happens to the soil organic carbon. Look what happens to CO2 emissions. And so, I think that that's not to say that there is sort of an international conspiracy against [INAUDIBLE]. >> [LAUGH] >> If anything, I think that with the Paris Agreement, there's very strong, once again, sort of drivers, that need to find ways to deal with greenhouse gas emissions. >> Mm-hm. >> But these other bodies are saying we can't only prioritize that. >> Mm-hm. >> And I think that really they are saying, we are not just going to take the good intentioned, very thoughtful, well done bench science. >> Mm-hm. >> We won't take their promises as face value [INAUDIBLE]. It has to come with ecological, like data as well. This has to come with a consideration of suicidal dimensions, etc, yep. >> Great, thank you so very much.
