Can you help explain more what you mean by soft in style and tough in substance? >> Absolutely. So I think the phrase that I like to use the best is called relentlessly pleasant. >> Okay. >> So a university president at the University of Michigan told me this, that she calls her style relentlessly pleasant. And I think what I like about this is that she understands that you have to be relentless in term of going after what you want. But she recognizes that people are gonna be judging her on how she negotiates and how she asks for things. And that being pleasant will actually go a longer way to getting what you want then to be nasty about, for example, for asking what you want. >> And lots of smiles along the way apparently. >> Absolutely, that is you want to use a style that's comfortable for you. So don't think because I'm going to negotiate, I have to be tough all of a sudden, when I'm not that kind of person. So use a style that fits your personality. Relax and realize that this is about problem solving. It's not about competition, it's about us figuring out what's gonna work for the best for both of us. >> Great. When is the best time to start a negotiation? >> Well, the best time is to obviously negotiate when your BATNA is good. >> Okay. >> So we talked about the best alternative to a negotiated agreement. When you have good outside options, that gives you the most power in the negotiation. You also want to negotiate at a time where you have some space to have a discussion so that you're not rushed and that you can really explore different options. >> So let's put this in the context of a salary negotiation or bonus negotiation. When is the best time to start the salary negotiation? >> Well, for example if you had another offer someplace else, you have a good BATNA that would be a good time to negotiate. You also wanna approach your boss at a time when he or she isn't completely crazed and busy. That that person really has the time to think about your request and for you to talk about it for a while. So to give it some space so that you're not rushed for the negotiation. >> And probably not after all the salaries and bonuses have been decided for the next year. You want to give them enough lead time. >> Absolutely. Many organizations have days of the year in which they decide who's going to get what next year. Once those are decided it is almost too late, and so you really want to approach that person before they go into that decision making process about who's gonna get what. That's the best time to ask. >> One of the things you write about is the importance of aiming high. Of having an ambitious target. >> Absolutely. >> So, help me figure out. Help everyone figure out how to aim high. >> Well, one of things that I like to tell women when they're thinking about what they should be getting in their job, what salary they should be earning is, what would a man get if he had this job? >> Okay. >> And that will help here potentially to think about a higher salary that she might have already expected. >> Can you go further, and say to the person who you're negotiating with, well, what would you be paying for this job if I were a man? >> If that person has a good sense of humor, that might work.