watch video on Cid Corman's "It isnt for want"

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From the course by University of Pennsylvania

Modern & Contemporary American Poetry (“ModPo”)

157 оценки

University of Pennsylvania

Modern & Contemporary American Poetry (“ModPo”)

157 оценки

ModPo is a fast-paced introduction to modern and contemporary U.S. poetry, with an emphasis on experimental verse, from Emily Dickinson and Walt Whitman to the present. Participants (who need no prior experience with poetry) will learn how to read poems that are supposedly "difficult." We encounter and discuss the poems one at a time. It's much easier than it seems! Join us and try it! Even though we are currently in our offseason ("SloPo"), you are welcome to enroll now. You will have access to the entire ModPo site. Explore; meet some ModPo'ers who are conversing in the site year-round; read poems and watch videos. Then join us again when the intense "symposium mode" starts up again in September. Yes, the next live, interactive 10-week session of ModPo will begin on September 8, 2018, and will conclude on November 19, 2018. Al Filreis will be in touch with you by email before the September 8 start of the course with all the information you'll need to participate. If you have questions, you can email the ModPo team at modpo@writing.upenn.edu. During the 10 weeks of the course, you will be guided through poems, video discussions of each poem, and community discussions of each poem. And (unique among open online courses) we offer weekly, interactive live webcasts. Our famed TAs also offer office hours throughout the week. We help arrange meet-ups and in-site study groups. If you are curious about the ModPo team, type "ModPo YouTube introduction" into Google or your favorite search engine, and watch the 20-minute introductory video. You will get an overview of the course and will meet the brilliant TAs, who will be encountering the poems with you all the way to the end. If you use Facebook, join the always-thriving ModPo group: from inside Facebook, search for "Modern & Contemporary American Poetry" and then request to be added as a member. If you have any questions about ModPo, you can post a question to the FB group and you'll receive an almost instant reply. We tweet all year long at @ModPoPenn and you can also find ModPo colleagues using the hashtag #ModPoLive. ModPo is hosted by—and is housed at—the Kelly Writers House at 3805 Locust Walk on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia USA. All ModPo'ers are welcome to visit the Writers House when they are in our area. Our discussions are filmed there. Our live webcasts take place in the famed "Arts Cafe" of the House. To find out what's going on at the Writers House any time, just dial 215-746-POEM.

From the lesson

chapter 1.2 (week 2)—Whitmanians & Dickinsonians

<p><b>Week 2 of ModPo 2018 runs from Sunday, September 16 at 9 AM through Sunday, September 23 at 9 AM. </b>For those doing ModPo on their own or in small groups, the week 2 materials are open and available all year.</p><p>During this week, the second half of chapter 1, we will read the work of two poets writing in the Whitmanian mode and three poets writing in the Dickinsonian mode. We will encounter our Whitmanians, William Carlos Williams and Allen Ginsberg, again later in the course—Williams as a modernist and Ginsberg as a Beat poet. The Whitman/Williams/Ginsberg connection is a strong one; Ginsberg wrote directly in response to both Whitman and Williams and saw the lineage as crucial to the development of his approach. Our Dickinsonians are more disparate in their response to Dickinson’s writing. Of the three—Lorine Niedecker, Cid Corman, and Rae Armantrout—only the last could be said to be a direct poetic descendant of Emily Dickinson's aesthetic. </p><p><b>ASSIGNMENTS:</b> During this week, there are two quizzes due and a writing assignment. Writing assignment #1 is open for submission between 9 AM on 9/17/18 and 9 AM on 9/23/18; after that, peer reviews will be submitted any time between 9 AM on 9/24/18 and 9 AM on 9/30/18. There is also a live webcast on Thursday, September 20, at noon (Philadelphia time).</p>

watch video on William Carlos Williams’s “Smell!”15:14

watch video on William Carlos Williams's "Danse Russe"19:33

watch video on Allen Ginsberg's "A Supermarket in California"15:40

watch video on Lorine Niedecker's "Grandfather Advised Me"13:54

watch video on Lorine Niedecker's "You are my friend"12:03

watch video on Lorine Niedecker's "Foreclosure"8:07

watch video on Cid Corman's "It isnt for want"14:28

watch video on Rae Armantrout's "The Way"21:40

watch video on distinctions between “Dickinsonian” and “Whitmanian” proto-modernism11:36

Meet the Instructors

Al Filreis
Kelly Professor, Dir. Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing, Faculty Dir. Kelly Writers House

So Cid Corman wrote thousands of poems. Not all of them as good as this one.

But, just, he, he wrote like this a lot. And I don't think anybody really thinks of

him in the Dickinson tradition. But we want, we want to, you know, give it

a try. We don't know what it is, really.

We don't know what it is, but let's give it a try.

It, it isn't for want of something to say. It isn't, it isn't for this, it is for

that. It, it isn't for want of something to say.

What's. >> It.

>> Why don't, I think it is always kind of a problem, right?

>> Right. Right.

>>, Well, no it isn't. >> Well yeah.

>> I mean. >> [laugh] >> [inaudible] non-poetic,

non-modern, pre-modern [inaudible] speech. It refers to something that been referred

to already. So.

The mug, I drank from the mug, excuse me. >> It is big.

>> Mm-hm. >> It contains a lot of liquid.

Okay, so it, it in our world is always open-ended.

And John Ashbury is going to make the most of these open pronouns much later in the

course. But anyway, go ahead.

>> I'm mean here, I guess, it's maybe the purpose of what he's about to do.

>> The whole thing, this whole thing. I think that's probably right.

Americe? >> I think it speaks to a need that

everyone can universally feel, that you can't.

>> Pinpoint, describe. >> The inevitable.

>> Or identify. >> The thing, the X, the thing that must

happen, or must be said, it. >> Hm.

>> Whatever it is, It isn't said, or done, or acted out.

For want of something to say. Want.

>> What, what does that mean, Anna? You probably don't use this word, in your.

>>, Sway. >> I guess I think to say, that it isn't

for want of something to say. It means that it's not because I don't

have anything to say. >> Okay.

>> [inaudible]. >> Well that's not quite right.

I mean want does mean desire, but what else?

You evaded it. The question.

>> [inaudible]. >> You don't know this connotation.

Who knows this connotation? >> Lack.

>> Lack. We don't say that very often anymore.

It's a terrific use of want. And I charge all of you to go out there,

and starting using it this way. It, a lack, it isn't for want.

Are you wanting something? That doesn't mean, it means you're lacking

something. It isn't for lack of something to say,

something to tell you. Max, what does this mean?

It isn't [inaudible]. It's not.

>> It's, not that I am lacking something to tell you.

>> Exactly. >> I do have something to tell you.

>> It's, I have something to tell you. >> Right.

It's not for lack of something to say. >> Right.

>> I have something to tell you. I do have something I wanna say.

I do. But that's not the point?

It's not for want of something to say. It's not for something to tell, lack of

something to tell you, or something you should know.

Now we, Kristen, move to something else. It's not.

It's not because I don't have anything you should know.

That's, that's a step up from. >> Something to say.

What are, what's the distinction between having something to say, having something

to tell you, and having something you should know?

Those are three different variations. >> Yeah.

Well having something to say is just, you know.

It may be a speech that doesn't really matter.

And then having something to tell you, I have an urge to say something to you.

It's important that I tell, I have something that I need to get off my chest.

>> Tell. Tell.

Tell all. Confess.

>> And then something you should know makes it important for the listener as

well. So not only do I have an urge to confess

something to you but you really need to hear it because it's important for.

>> So it refers. The you, the reader, the listeners someone

less important. I've got something to say almost doesn't

matter. Who's receiving.

The second. You becomes important.

Telling isn't just telling, it's telling to us, the reader, the listener.

And then the third. What's the relationship of you should

know? Between the I and the U.

Emily. >> Think if it's just a, a new type of

urgency, a complete necessity. >> Hm.

>> Yes, but it presumes relationship. >> What kind of relationship does it

presume? >> Well, the, the, the speaker of the poem

has something that the other person needs or wants, or iii...

>> Needs. Well not wants, necessarily.

If you go into a history of the American south course, and you know nothing about

the history of the American south. And the lecturer says that this is

something you should know. It implies that the lecturer has something

that he or she knows that you don't. It implies that the lecturer is somebody,

and you aren't yet. [inaudible].

>> Implies that, that person has something to say and that you have, need to listen.

>> Should. >> There's a kind of finger wagging there.

But it's not! But see to say, it's not for that, it's

not. It's not that I lack something to say or

that I lack something to tell you or something you should know.

I have, I may have all that. But something else.

Molly, what? But something else, BUT turns the point.

>> But. >> He needs to say something to stop you

from going or stop the reader from reading.

>> Detain, translate that word. >> To...

To stop, to keep somebody here. >> It's a great work [inaudible].

Let's play with that a little more. >> Well also as used in, in terms of like

a prisoner. >> Detain has, has a valid [inaudible] of

ancient mariner. I have a story to tell you and grabs you

by [inaudible] beginning Moby-Dick. >> I've got some story to tell you.

I, I have to, I am the kind of person who has to detain you, to keep you from going.

Where would you go? Where, where would one go?

Kristen? >> To not be in the room with the poet or

to not be, ... >> What's the rules?

>> Not be present. Not be, not be present at all, maybe not

exist anymore. >> Not be present?

So what is Sid saying so far about what he needs and what he wants?

>> He needs the companionship. He needs someone to be with him.

[inaudible] ... >> He wants to detain you.

I want to detain you, to keep you from going.

It's not that I have something to say, though I do.

It's not that, it's not that I, I, I have, that there's something you should know,

although I think that's true. It's, it's not for those reasons, but just

to keep you here. So, we have [inaudible], which is, empty

out, the urgency of content, completely. What do we have left when we take content

out? >> Somebody could say form, and that's not

quite it. >> Just the feeling.

>> Touching, feeling. >> The feeling of feeling myself here.

>> Feeling? >> I think.

>> Well I think. >> [inaudible].

>> That's the other, that's the other important word, isn't it?

I mean we have it is the first important word, and here is the second.

>> Yes. >> So here I think, could be Dickenson's

this, or Whitman's now. And we talked about this [inaudible].

>> So what does that? >> [inaudible].

>> Have to do? >> This.

>> Okay. You're going along fast, as you usually

do, but what, what? When you get rid of the content.

It's not because I have content, it's not because I have a story to tell you It's

because I have a poem to write You were going too fast to the end.

>> But that's the matter. That's where it is.

>> Yeah. You're absolutely right.

>> [laugh] >> And I don't want to go out when it is here.

>> [laugh] >> So fast. What's left when you get rid of content?

Emily, what's left when you have a story? Your moms have something to tell you.

But it's not. It turns out to be not important.

It's really the weather. And you say, "Mom, why did you make me

come all the way home to talk about the weather?" ...

>> That's not what you have to. No, she says.

I didn't wanna tell you. It's not that I have something to tell

you. It's because I needed you here.

>> Just the, the presence of the listener? >> Presence, presence of what?

In your case, presence of daughter in the example that I made up.

>> The presence of the relationship between me and my mother.

>> Okay, and here? >> And here.

>> What is. >> Poet and reader.

>> Poet and reader. The relationship is poet and reader, so

now Anna, what does here mean? >> Well, when we thought about Dickensen's

for occupation this. >> This would refer to, open-endedly.

>> Open, but the writing of poetry ... >> To the thing we were reading.

>> And dwelling in the house of possibility which is what I think we

decided. >> So [inaudible] possibility is

open-endedness is all kinds of interpretations possible.

And when content is not that important. >> That's what you have, you have a lot of

presence. >> Who cares whether interpretation goes

this way or that way. But what we have is presence.

The presence, not just of the subject speaking, of the subject position of the

eye, of the speaker, of the narrator. But the, the required presence of you, of

one, of us, of readers, here. Okay, so, here, is hard.

It's tricky. >> Who wants to do here.

Really spell it out. Amaris where is here?

Where are we? >> In the space of the poem [inaudible].

>> In the space of the poem. And space is a fancy word that a lot of

fancy poetics people use to refer to the space the poem makes.

What is this space the poem makes? Its presence.

>> Using linguistic imagination or any motive thought of consciousness.

>> All that. >> Whitman's [inaudible] of voice maybe.

>> How about the words on the page right. I mean the, the, the.

Involvement. The presence of you in it.

This is all that Cid wants. It isn't for some, it isn't for, for want

of something to say, something to tell you, something you should know, but to

keep you here. To keep you in the poem.

Unfortunately, the poem's going to end, Cid Corman is going to end, but what will

be left of Cid Corman, he is deceased, what will be left of him is this.

Here. Something you should know, but to detain

you, to keep you from going. Dear Rear, I need you here.

This is why I write so you can be here, feeling my self here.

Oh. >> He says myself.

He doesn't say reader feeling you here. He says feeling myself here.

Have we misread this and misinterpreted it?

Kristen? >> Well, you can kind of take it to be

that the you in this poem is kind of like the you in [inaudible] poem, where it ends

up being actually me. So he might be talking about oneness being

with himself. >> So the, so that our reading,

[inaudible] our interpretation of this as the reader is wrong?

>> No, I think. >> [inaudible] >> Go ahead, Paulette.

>> I think we were right the first time because if we continue with the next line

and hes feeling himself here as you had there.

>> [inaudible] is you are. >> Right.

>> So, I, the writer, can only be here [inaudible].

>> I am only here. I am only in this poem, if you are.

If you, no one, this is the, you know? >> Tree falling.

>> Tree falling in the forest. If no one is reading the poem then Sid is

no longer present. So long as you are, so long as you are.

As, so long as you exist. So long as you are you.

So long as you are a subject, and this is a subject-subject relationship, not a

subject-object relationship. >> That's why he wanted.

>> [inaudible] >> That's why he's to repeat those last two lines, because he

went [inaudible]. >> First he emphasizes selfhood, then he

emphasizes. >> You, and then he emphasizes the

presence. >> First selfhood and then presence.

First selfhood and then existence. His existence is contingent on our

existence. >> And you can get that same emphasis if

you only had that line once, I don't think.

Even with the, the italics that is written.

I think you need that twice. So I find this as evocation of the

importance of the reader and a lessening of the importance of content.

Very moving. And it's hard to imagine such a slight

existential sufferential poem as being moving, but if anybody's with me, would

you like to take a ... >> A minute at the end here to say why?

Amorese, what's moving about this? >> I was very moved, because the emphasis

is on the encounter. And, I mean, if we take it briefly out of

the meta aspects we just discussed, it's just, it seems to be seeking to a very

simple longing for human connection, and being together, and sort of an intuitive

understanding. And so, you know, you could be with people

and still feel completely alone. But here, he's talking about a true

concentrated presence between poet and reader, which is the encounter and space

and connection of the poem. Yeah, and I think, as readers most, most

people I know who, who enjoy reading, they're, in a sense, they, they read in

the same way that Walt, William Carlos Williams smells.

It's not to learn anything particular, it's just to have experience where

experience is available. And, by that notion, content is to some

extent reducible or dispensable. And it really is just the moment of

reading and interacting with a person who is physically not there.

Which you take away and which you keep. >> I suppose.

>> So the purpose of art here is not to express the self.

This is not self expression. This is gonna be very important.

In the, postmodern. Poetry that we study, at the end of our

course. [inaudible] self expression in this case,

is not. It, it, it's there.

But it's not important. What's important is, connection.

Of meeting maker and receiver. And then a response back.

So as I said before, not subject-object. I am, you aren't; I know, you don't; I

have, you want; I speak, you listen. But subject to subject connection I exist

because you exist. I am present in the writing because you

are with me here. And without you, I am nothing.

So in the end, when Cid Corman feels himself here, it implies a you.

And I think, although Dickinson's, version of this is really very complicated.

Because she didn't have, really, an audience.

And she didn't, she was very anxious about publishing.

Nonetheless, her feeling herself there was predicated on some kind of you.

Sometimes, an imaginary lover, sometimes a hope for lover.

Sometimes a god, sometimes a reader. In this case Corman is, has a much more s,

obvious social impulse. But in the end, the, the language self

depends on the existence of someone to receive the message.

And it's not the message that's important. It's the fact of meeting to detain

someone, another human for contact.

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