Today, Professor Tony Travers Director of LSE London at the London School of Economics and Political Science has will join us. Welcome, and thank you for sharing your insights. Can you explain which governmental structures are involved in an outbreak response during a pandemic such as COVID-19? And what the role of science in the decision-making process is for governments? >> Well, what there is is under the civil contingencies legislation there's a hierarchy of responses by national government and sub-national governments at the local levels as well based on, effectively, police areas within the country. And even in London down to the London boroughs there's a third level of contingency activity there as well. So it's a hierarchy. And then what happens, particularly at the local level, so at the London-wide level and, to some degree, at the borough-level in London. It'll be similar elsewhere, is there is a group who act for local resiliency, a local resilience forum. And what they do is to bring together the council, the local authorities, the fire brigade, the police, if necessary, the army, into a number of either local committees or a citywide committee. And they then deliver emergency planning. And when we get into an emergency, and now is that position, these agencies work to coordinate across these different institutions and upwards to national government and downwards from national government. So it's a sort of hierarchical institution. But which at the local level produces horizontal coordination between different agencies. And I should say, that this is a system that's in place all the time. But now, you also asked about science and, of course, normally these resilience forums would from time-to-time and where necessary be involved with public health and/or national health agencies. They'd be part of the setup. But I think what's unusual about this particular one is that although they'll be all the institutional mechanism in place ready for an emergency of this kind. This particular emergency is bigger in scale and involves an intersection between political institutions, medical research, and medical delivery agencies, hospitals and GPs, which is pretty well unparalleled in recent time. >> Governments across the world have access to the same scientific data. Can you explain why they make different decisions regarding non-pharmaceutical interventions? >> I think this is a most interesting question, which I'm sure will be studied for years to come. Because given that this is a global pandemic, it clearly would benefit from global coordination. What's actually happened is a sort of each country for its own policy. Which has led to different sets of actions at different speeds from place to place even within Europe. You can see that Italy and France and Spain are in different positions to the UK and Germany as we speak. So it's been very much each country for themselves. And that, I think, will beg questions after all of this. And there will be an after all of this, about how you get global coordinated responses that don't lead to this each country going on its own. And then in each case, coming up with slightly different speeds of response. Which, then, as the media show what's going on in different countries in different parts of the world, doesn't look consistent from country to country. Even though what I think is happening, you're the expert on this not me, is that countries are responding as the epidemic gets worse. But only when it does get worse. I think that's what seems to be triggering the scale of response from country to country. >> Do you think that this global crisis is going to cause governments to become more isolationist, or will it reignite the interest in international collaboration? Well, I think in the short term, it's led an each country for its own kind of response. And not only in terms of the science and medicine involved, but also to some degree in terms of the economic packages. And what's fascinating about what's happening is that it brings together a global health emergency, which has immediately triggered a global economic and political emergency all at once. So having said that, that's as we speak now. I think that the learning from this, one would hope the learning from this, will be that global or multinational institutions will be strengthened in future. So that as when and if something like this happens again, which it presumably probably will. That they'll be a better international response immediately rather than this sort of everybody looking after each country looking after its own in a very short term, very, very short term way. So I think short term, not good. Longer term, one would hope some international learning and coordination. >> From a government and political perspective, what are the most urgent questions for science to answer right now? I think in some ways you're better able to answer that I would. If I can give you a sort of political science answer, I think what politicians need from scientists, and they're getting this as far as possible, is the best advice possible on how individuals who are sick should be treated. How populations should be informed about their behavior and reassured by the way, all those things have to happen at the same time. But in the end, politicians are not scientific and medical experts. They have to rely on those who are. And I think this creates problems for politicians, obviously. Because normally politics is conducted in the business of, how should I put it delicately, big slogans, campaigning not always fully on top of the truth. When suddenly, when this kind of event happens, people want to be told the truth. They want to be given reassurance by people they trust in. So it's easier for scientists and medics than it is for politicians. On the other hand, politicians drive government and legitimize the use of resources. So that's why you see senior politicians, senior scientific, and senior medical officials standing together day after day in press conferences. Trying to bring these three arms of this particular crisis, or the three elements of the solution, together. >> Thank you, Professor, for taking the time to speak with us today. >> Thank you. [MUSIC]