You know, Will, a lot of what we've been doing in this course is

talking much larger than the Arch of Titus exclusively.

We're talking about how to see.

How to look at our world.

How to look outside and see things we might not naturally see,

once we have the tools to do it.

And I know that, as a person whose life is involved in Roman art and

it's after life, you look at the world.

You look at New York, you look at London, you look at Rome and

see 2000 years at any particular second.

>> Right.

>> And I'm wondering how your perception develops and

how you do it in dealing with just like the arts but not only the arts.

>> Right right right >> I mean I think what's fascinating about

the art is that it's an artifact that can be seen from so many different angles.

I was trained as a classicist so the first time I saw the arch was was on a trip

to Rome as an undergraduate where we were introduced to it as a Roman memorial and

as part of the architecture and the structure for it.

In fact it was- The defeat of the Jews was, you know, neither here nor there.

It was very much seen as a kind of part and parcel of the Roman landscape.

>> When I did it in Art History course, as an undergraduate, it was the same.

And the question I asked was, so where's the Jewish part?

>> Right, right, right.

>> Exactly.

>> And it took me a while to realize that was the question I should have asked.

It was only.

>> Well, I was the one who was not there.

>> [LAUGH] >> And

it was only once I started to become interested in the reception of Rome and

the understanding of Roman antiquity in the 15th and 16th century, which I worked

on there when I realized how interesting this arch was as an example of that.

Because it's not just about the Roman >> It's about this Christian element,

about the triumph over the Jews, and then, by the end of the 16th century,

you start to get these scholars who start to become interested in Judaism and

the history of the Jews, independent of Rome, and independent of Christianity, and

start saying,

what can this [INAUDIBLE] tell us as evidence for what they might have read.

>> So when you look at this arch like the grand army plaza arch, you're looking

through a whole vocabulary that you're prepared for from your classic studies.

And seeing that and then >> Capable of doing something with it?

>> Right, and I'm not an architectural historian, and so

I don't necessarily see it in terms of its structure, but

I sort of see it in terms of its historical image,

why build an arch in Brooklyn in 1890, which I think is a fascinating question.

Why celebrate the end of the civil war with a triumph

>> Why incorporate all this Roman imagery

in this nation that was starting to emancipate itself in important ways from

its European heritage.

But still there's this attempt to kind of reach back and legitimize and

understand the American mission with reference to these Roman symbols and

Roman and Roman ideas.

>> And so the American stands out much more because you come with the Roman.

Is that true?

>> I think so. And I think to a European,

coming to America and seeing these European symbols in America,

it's a slightly disconcerting question.

>> It is disconcerting.

>> That if you're raised >> This idea of American exceptionalism.

An American doing things better.

Its very interesting that they're still reaching back into European past in

order to understand what they're going through in the late 19th century

Through the Eyes of Contemporary Scholars: Professor Fine with Professor Stenhouse

Arch of Titus: Rome and the Menorah

Meet the Instructors